INT: So we're just talking about script. What do you look for, when you pick up a script? What is it, you know, as you said you want bumps, you want climaxes, you want humor; but what is it that, I guess the indefinable stuff in your stomach, what is it you would be looking? 

JG: Yeah. Well I always try, when I first pick up the script, to try and put every thought out of my mind, and try and read it as I'm reading a book. And if it's based on a book, I like to read the book as well, because if the book's successful and if it intrigues you than the script should do the same. It doesn't always. Sometimes you get a hugely successful book and they make a film out of it, and it's nowhere near as good. But no, I try and keep an open mind and try and absorb what's written in there. And then I think you get an impression, of whether it needs help in certain areas. Most of the scripts I've worked on do need, you need to do some more than others. I was thinking of CHRISTOPHER COLUMBUS, which I directed, THE DISCOVERY [CHRISTOPHER COLUMBUS: THE DISCOVERY]. We had a Writer on board, and we were continuously writing, all the way through because it was a troublesome film to put it mildly, and we were shooting in Malta. And I had the Writer with me and we, we just rewriting all the time, all the way through. And it's not an ideal way to work at all. [INT: What was the problem, the main problem, was it technical? Money or--] Money was a problem. Also the biggest problem was that Christopher Columbus had become politically unviable. He was charged with having introduced slavery to the Americas and he became a no-no, you know, in terms of, we had all kinds of plans for the ships to go into New York harbor and big celebrations, and it all went rotten. They had so much bad publicity, and then people started to leave the production, you know, the Writers. Timothy Dalton was slated to play the lead and he quit. I hope it had nothing to do with me being the Director, 'cause I'd worked with him on two pictures. No, it was unfortunate in a way, but it's an experience I would never have missed, because... [INT: Yeah, it seems like often in many ways, as you say, rewriting as you go is forced on, nothing to do with the actual film, but to do with external things.] Yeah, it was and you know, suddenly when this, all this bad publicity came about, about slavery and Christopher Columbus, suddenly the Producer said, "We've got to write a scene in, where he's trying to, you know, we're trying to divert the attention away from that." So we had to rewrite the scenes on board the ship back to Spain, and the slaves. They were slaves, the people he brought back, he tried to make them religious, and he was trying to teach them hymns. And all that stuff came in late, very late in the process. But it was a fun film in a lot of ways, and it was a great experience, I mean we shot on the tank in Malta, which is the worst place to shoot in a way. It's like, you know, it's meant for models. And we had three full size ships on that tank. And if you shot slightly off that way, you'd have the litter in picture, and if you shot that way there'd be public toilets and all sorts of stuff you didn't want in the film; you were supposed to be in mid-Atlantic. So it was quite a challenge, and I used to just float sails in all the time. I'd say, "Another sail!" [INT: Like the removal van.]

INT: So how do your shooting scripts evolve in general? There's a process, you know, you pick it up, you read it, you think, "Okay, this is good." Well maybe you need tickle that or tickle this, but in general what would be the process of their evolution? 

JG: Yeah. You go through and you have script conferences and initially it'll be, you know, it would be Michael Wilson, Dick Maibaum [Richard Maibaum], Cubby [Albert "Cubby" Broccoli], and myself. And we'd go through and Cubby would say, "You need more excitement here, we need a bump," and all that. They'd all look at me, “Invent some action, you know, lift the film.” And I go off into a room and invariably I'd come up with an idea, and then I'd take it back. And they would shoot it down in flames initially and then I'd go back and rework it and come back again. That's the way it goes. It's quite nice when you get a group of creative people together 'round a table. And someone suggests something, and it triggers your thoughts, and you improve on that idea. So it's quite a nice process, and I love those script conferences. [INT: And did everybody have a defined role? Or was it just all in it together?] Well, I suppose everyone looked to, I mean, Dick Maibaum was a Bond veteran; he was great. [INT: What was his title?] He was screenwriter, usually co-screenwriter with another Writer. I mean it's quite commonplace on Bonds. They were start off, like we had George MacDonald Fraser on OCTOPUSSY, a lovely guy. I worked with him in Los Angeles on a script, on the first script, on OCTOPUSSY. And we got on, we produced something after about six weeks or so; I came back to England, got a phone call, straight away; "We've throwing that script out, come back, we'll start again." And we started again with another Writer, you see? That's the way it happens. They make these decisions and we kept certain elements of George's stuff, the Indian idea, ‘cause that's why we chose him originally, 'cause he's an expert on India. Lovely guy, great sense of humor. And no, that was an interesting experience. And Richard Maibaum was quite interesting, 'cause he used to be an Actor when he first started in Hollywood in the old days and he would be trying to sell a point, and the leading lady would always be his misses, Sylvia [Sylvia Maibaum]; she was a beautiful lady. But you know, he used to get down on his hands and knees and read the lines, and we used to laugh. It was such an enjoyable time.

INT: So you went shooting with a completed script [on James Bond films] all the time? 

JG: Yeah. I mean, very occasionally we would rewrite something, but you know, it wasn't like in the middle of the shoot, it would be done after hours, we'd talk about an upcoming scene, we might just adjust it or something. But basically, we got a final script, which we then broke down. And the process was, you'd break the scene down with the production people, and they would say, "How many days?" or "How many hours do you need to shoot this scene?" And I always used to remember what Louis Gill taught me, he said, "If you've got animals and children, double the schedule." And it's not a bad idea. [INT: He should have said boats as well.] Yeah, boats, yeah. So you know, aware of those things, but you always work out your schedule and don't cut yourself too tight, because things do go wrong. And then the production team would cost the thing and they would all go in the budget. And at the end of this process, we'd have a budget, and we knew roughly what the last picture cost. I mean my first one was 27 million I think, FOR YOUR EYES ONLY. And I think the last one, which was quite a few years later, was something like 31, 32 million dollars. But to keep the price down, on A VIEW TO A KILL, not A VIEW TO A KILL, the last one I did, LICENSE TO KILL. To keep the cost down, we went to Mexico; we deserted Pinewood [Pinewood Studios] and we used the old Churubusco Studios [Estudios Churubusco] in Pine-, in Mexico City. And when we got there, the studio was in a state of disrepair. The first explosion, I remember all the panels in the ceiling of the set all came down like autumn leaves. And the rain used to come in and again, rain there I tell you. [INT: Hidden costs.] Yeah.

INT: So what changes? The type of changes; you've gone through a few. But you know, the changes that you make in a script, the characters or the Actors or you know, suddenly you've cast someone and you kinda have to adjust things for that, or the budgets, or other factors that you would change your shooting script for? 

JG: Yeah. I'm just trying to think of an example, but I mean basically, we planned those films, and I was always... I was very, very keen. I had early lessons about, you know, when I did my first, when I did that TV episode [MAN IN A SUITCASE], and I went two days over schedule, and I got the sack. That has always stayed with me as part of that learning experience, and I knew how important it is, to keep your schedule. Sometimes, like, you know, we lost our set, on the... Ridley Scott was doing a movie down there and the 007 Stage [at Pinewood Studios] burnt down. And that affected us, because it was A VIEW TO A KILL we were doing, and we had a meeting about it, and we decided, we'd rebuild the stage, and the big set that was going in there would be assembled at the same time as they were rebuilding the stage. It was a huge undertaking. But the insurance companies were involved and we got three weeks hiatus, which was great for me, 'cause I went in the cutting rooms and I was working in the cutting rooms and they were building the set, and after three weeks it was all ready, amazing to rebuild that thing. And it was improved, because there was a problem with people, to escape from that set if it went up again, we built some exits in the roof that people could get out. So we improved the actual set. It's still there now, it’s at the 007 Stage; it's the biggest stage in Europe. And it's very, very useful. We shot a lot of underwater stuff in there as well.

INT: Something you just said, I found quite interesting because, you know, and it's the importance of staying on schedule. You know, not going over schedule. How does a Director do that, because all you can really control is the pace on the floor, the amount of setups that you're doing. If it's been poorly scheduled say... 

JG: Well, that's the secret; don't be poorly scheduled. You have to really be realistic with your scheduling. [INT: Because often times, and I think it's becoming more common, is that to get a film made, you have to agree to sometimes a quite ludicrous schedule. There's a kind of dance that goes on, and I'm sure this went with you as well.] Yeah, sure. [INT: That you say, "Oh yeah we can do it that time," knowing full and well that you can't do it in that time and you save that fight for down the road. I'm presuming that also occurred in your day?] Oh yeah, absolutely. I mean, the thing is that we were, you know, doing a series of pictures; we knew what the last one cost, so basically they're looking at the same cost or allow for inflation maybe, a few million more, but not much more. And when I started making my films, MGM was undergoing some sort of crisis, you know, as it is invariably every few years. And they're sort of on the verge of bankruptcy if you like and then you get the message through that we're gonna have to cut down on our budgets and what have you. And there was great pressure from America that we cut the budgets down. And it's very difficult to do that. That was the reason we went to Mexico, to save money. You know, costs are lower there and what have you.

INT: I know often times, you know, the people in charge of money have built in sort of padding, you know, here or there just so that they know they can save things here or there. Is there any place, like, as a Director you can build that kind of buffer-age, for what you can control? 

JG: Well you usually have a continuity of some sort, contingency I should say of some sort, you know, maybe 10 percent, they have a contingency down in the budget to allow for any mishaps or bad weather. I mean bad weather is a thing you can't control, I mean you try and choose your locations to the optimum time, when the weather is stable, what have you. I mean we filmed in Key West, [Key West, Florida] and the weather there is like, you know, every afternoon down the rains. Clouds come over; the rain comes down, at the time when we were shooting. And you have to shoot 'round that somehow. So when the weather is good, you have to do your wide shots. And when the weather's bad, you do your close shots. And you try and have a little tin shed somewhere where you can go in and keep everyone busy doing inserts or close shots when the weather's really bad. So the important thing is to keep going, and that was a lesson I learned early on, on HER MAJESTY'S SECRET SERVICE, when I came in as a replacement Director. [INT: And would you, like, schedule the day with that in mind or would you do it on the hoof?] Yeah. Well I storyboarded; I'm talking really about the bob run [bobsled] sequence initially, that was what I was brought in to do. And I drew it all out, and the weather was pretty awful, you know? And it was two-fold, because we had a bob run that was melting away, if the sun was out, and if the sun wasn't out it was snowing and you couldn't shoot because of all the snow, so it was a terrible location really. And I put sun sails up to protect the curves in the bob run from melting away. And we had to reinforce 'em every night with ice blocks which we brought in from burn believe it or not, and [CLEARS THROAT] in the end I decided I'd continue shooting without removing the sails, because it took, you know, an hour or two to get all the sails down from the track to protect the corners, and the bends. So I decided in the end, I'll just go with the sails up, so that's what I did. And I managed to complete the sequence successfully. But I learned some lessons on that. [INT: How much importance do you put on camera matching, because always as a cameraman, as cameramen will tell you, you know, "You can't do this, it will never match. You can't do that, it will never match."] Well, today I think you can do all sorts of things now with, digitally, so you know, I don't think that's a problem anymore. Obviously, you know, your wide shots, I mean, Alan Hume and I we'd go on the recce [recognizance] and I'd say, "That's a fantastic...look at that." And it's like four o'clock in the afternoon, the sun's low, and you'd get this beautiful 3-D effect, you know, with the shadows. And I'd say, "Alan, make a note of the time, we've got to arrange our schedule so that we get here at four o'clock in the afternoon." Because you could get there at midday and it's flat, it looks nothing. So, you know, it's important when you're on a recce [recognizance] to actually make a note of the time of day that you see something that appeals to you, because two hours earlier it looked completely different.

INT: Again, we've touched on this before, but the writing process; does it stop when you start to shoot? Or if it continues through the production can you explain why? 

JG: I don't think it ever stops, really. I think the Writers, I mean in the case we had, you know, Michael [Michael G. Wilson] was always around and if there was a problem--I can remember Roger [Roger Moore] saying to me on one occasion, he said, "Oh John, I can't say this stuff.” He said, “I had dinner with a Writer friend of mine last night, and we rewrote it, what do you think of this?" And I listened to it, and I said, "Last night after a few brandies it probably sounded very good, but it doesn't stand up to the cold light of dawn." He just looked at me and burst out laughing, because he knew I was right. [INT: Great phrases you never want to hear, "I had dinner with a Writer friend last night."]

INT: What do you bring as a Director to a script that takes it from the written page and moves it to being a visual part of the story? 

JG: Well, I mean I suppose I'll go down as being in history or film history as being an action Director really and… But at the same time, I found all the acting scenes, where, you know, you have three or four very good Actors playing a scene. I just found that absolutely delightful and easy, because the Actors contribute so much to the scene that suddenly the words on the page come alive. And you're seeing it, really seeing it for the first time. And that's why I find the rehearsals are so important. And when they play the scene, and you see things that you'd never seen, these Actors, everyone's contributing so much to the scene. And it's very important, and I think Louis taught me that you never try and put the Actors into the frame. Always let the Actors free, initially for the rehearsal, let them find their way around the set and do what they feel comfortable with. And then figure out how you're gonna shoot it. [INT: So you never have, like, an idea in your head for, I've got a shot that I really want to get?] Oh, I do, but I put that to one side, and see what happens. So I don't sort of put the camera up initially and then try and get the Actors to work within those confines. Bring them on the set and let them roam around and play the scene, and we'll work it up and we'll change a few things. And then, of course, when you get to actually light the set, 'cause after the rehearsal they make them, everyone makes their marks and what have you, so the cameraman can work his magic. And then the Actors usually go off to the dressing room to get made up and what have you. And when they come back the cameraman says, "It would be better if you played that part there, because it's better for the lighting," and what have you. And they usually, the Actors go with that. But basically they feel they've expressed themselves on the rehearsal. And you know, I think it's wrong to try and confine anyone into a frame.

INT: Bringing us to Actors. Bringing us very nicely to Actors. What methods or what do you use when you, to cast Actors? What criteria, what is it you're looking for when you're casting? 

JG: Yeah. Well, I think when you're dealing with, you now, obviously the principle Actors, you're dealing with the star. [INT: Yeah, 'cause there's two separate parts.] Yeah, I mean in my case Roger Moore was in situ, although it wasn't certain when I first started [OCTOPUSSY]. My first, the first thing I was told was, "Find a new James Bond." And I toured the world and tested all kinds of people everywhere. And at the end of the day I'm very fortunate that Roger suddenly came back in the frame, towards the end. It was a bit of a poker game. I didn't realize it, but I think Cubby [Albert "Cubby" Broccoli] was playing his cards very close to his chest. [INT: But he knew who he wanted.] Yeah, but I was a bit of a diversion, testing people all over the place, and it was kind of keeping Roger's demands down a bit, you know. At the end of the day he did very well, but they came to an arrangement in the end, and I was very fortunate, really, that I had the established James Bond on board.

JG: But then you talk about the next thing you've gotta worry about, is the leading lady. You've got to have someone who can act a bit and is beautiful. And that's the sort of the formula thing for the James Bond film. And that's a tough one really, because you know we had Maud Adams who was wonderful [OCTOPUSSY] and beautiful and could act and had all the requirements. And then, you know, you can only generally use them once, but in fact in Maud's case, we used her at least twice, probably three times. I even used her in the background of one scene in San Francisco just 'cause she came down on the set. She's such a lovely person. She came down to see us and I said, "Well walk through the back of the scene and that could be a...” [INT: So that's with the leading lady, which is very, quite specific to Bond, because I can see that that would be a tricky one. Then you have the supporting cast.] Yeah. Well, your casting agent will come in, you know, the lady that you employ to cast, to make suggestions and she will come down with people, you'll interview them, you'll audition them and decide. If they're established Actors they won't audition probably, but you'll talk about the nature of the role and how you see it, and you listen to their interpretation. And they probably haven't really, they just sort of read, briefly read the script, you know, overnight or something before they come in for an interview, so you have to explain the character that you see and then leave it for them to enhance it, 'cause you can't really tell an Actor how to act. You have to give them a sort of a broad outline and then see how they interpret it and then they will do another, they will come in and read it for you. You know, but usually you've cast them and you don’t really, until you get on the set, on the first day with that Actor and you play the scene. That's why you rehearse it, and you see how he, how he picks up the character. It's quite interesting. [INT: And have they changed from being cast to then, what they've thought of that character?] I'm sure they have, yeah. I think, you know, if you cast a baddie, like Robert Davi, for instance, you know he came in, and he was a friend of the family. And I'd met him socially in Los Angeles and we were testing girls for Bond roles, and I was looking for an Actor to feed the lines, so we dressed up Robert Davi as James Bond. And we filmed scenes with him playing James Bond. And he was very good. He really was very good. And he's a very... he's handsome in a way; he's very rugged in like a Humphrey Bogart way, you know, he's handsome. You know, he's very masculine and very, he's got a bit of a pockmarked face, you know, so it looks though he's lived a bit. And he's a very good Actor, and he's got a great sense of humor. And when we cast him, he was so good in that, and we cast him as the villain, in LICENSE TO KILL and of course, he had his own interpretation. Although he was rough, he wanted to go against type. And he wanted humor and he wanted to play it like a James Bond, but he was the villain. And he did it very well, very, very well indeed. [INT: And that was informed by having him in the casting for the leading ladies?] Yes. And you know, we tested various ladies. Some of them minor parts, and what have you. We used Carey Lowell, was the leading lady in that particular film, most beautiful girl and good actress too. Very good actress.

INT: How do you go about casting, and they're a big part of it, is the extras? 

JG: Yeah. Well that's the fun, that's the fun day, because we used to laugh, we'd say, "This day we're gonna have all these girls, all these models, beautiful women coming into the..." And I used to, you know, the problem is you tend to forget who is who in the end. You get them all mixed up, so I used to have like a system, I would give them stars. And make rather course comments about them, in my notes as they came in. So that I could then, when I called them back I would know, and we would gradually whittle down and decide. [INT: Do you find it important to really cast almost every part or can you, you know, give that away to a casting Director at any point?] Well, they basically, they're very important people, the Casting Directors. They're invariably right, what they say. Sometimes you second guess them and say, "Oh I don't know about that." But invariably they're right, they study, they're at the theater all the time, they see every film, they know exactly what's happening at that moment in the acting profession. And they're usually pretty good. I mean you got the right person. So you know, you rely on them a lot, and if they say someone's gonna, you know, they think someone can do it, they can do it. [INT: I find so.]

INT: So, rehearsals. You do rehearse, of course. Can you describe for me just a typical rehearsal for you? You turn up on the day, you've got your pages for the day, you've thought about it the night before, then what happens? 

JG: Well, you get on the floor and your Assistant [Assistant Director] comes up to you and he says, "What's the first setup?" And you say, "Well get the Actors on." And so, oh... They're in middle of makeup, so they come down with tissue paper protecting their wardrobe and all sorts, and they come on the set. And you say, "Okay, this is it," and you know, "Get into position, let's just work it out. Just play it." And they start, and then you say, "Action." And Actors being Actors always do something when you say, "Action." So they start to move around and they pick up a glass and they say their lines, and then you watch it and you say, "Well, don't do that, do that," and "Why are you doing that?" and so forth. And you just gradually work it up and then eventually you say, "Okay let's have a rehearsal, a proper rehearsal." And they play it and you say, "Yeah that's good, okay make some marks." So the camera crew go in and they make little marks where they're gonna stand, so now they've got to repeat that, on all the takes because the cameraman is going to light those particular sections of the set. So having done that you would then say, "Okay, go and get made up and we'll light the set." So they go off and they finish their makeup in their dressing room, their wardrobe. And hopefully by the time they're ready, you're ready to shoot. And then you get on, you rehearse again a couple of times and you say, "Okay let's put one down." And you start to shoot.

INT: How do you work with Actors? What do you say to them to get a performance if they're not, if it's just not right what they're doing. 

JG: Well usually they're the first ones that say to you, "Can we go again? Can we go again? I'm not happy about that." It depends on the shot you're doing you see, if you're doing like a master shot, and I would sometimes say, "You’re pinholes in the celluloid. We're going to come in close, so we'll work it up as we get closer," you know, the performance. Because you can throw the lines from anywhere on the long shot, you know what I mean? I was an Editor, I know what I can do, and quite often we'd take lines from the close shot and stick 'em on the long shot and what have you. So you know, they don't always understand that. But if you're doing a wide shot, I used to say, "It's pinholes in the celluloid. You're little dots, you know, we could put anything on that you like. But we're gonna come in close." And when we come in close we're really concentrating on the performance, and we'll do several takes, and we do it in piecemeal. We'll break it up, you know, you'll do perhaps, five takes. But you won't do the whole speech; you'll probably do a pickup. You'll do the first part and then you'll say, "Okay, pick it up from there." So you do it in bits, you know, and you try different things, you experiment in different ways of saying things, different feelings. Different emotions, you know? And you can do that in the close shot, whereas if you're in the wide shot you're wasting your time really, because you can, you know, it's not what--it's a close shot medium basically, film. [INT: It was one of the first phrases I learned, which is "Cross in the master; Act in the close up." Because it's, you know, it's geography and then it's emotion. But again, it strikes me that because you came through editing you understand that it is a compilation of bits.] Yeah it is. [INT: And it doesn't have to be all the way through, perfect each time. But I'm thinking more of, if an Actor is just...miscast, say. If you've miscast him and there's no chance you're getting someone else.] Yeah, that's a difficult one. Yeah, I mean the point is that you have to persevere with them to a degree; it's too disruptive to recast, generally. I remember doing a commercial once, which is slightly different, where I'd picked the wrong guy for doing this particular thing. It was a skateboarding film, and I picked the wrong guy. I picked him for his expertise on the skateboard rather than his acting ability I suppose. But I realized my mistake on take one, so I did change; I hated doing it, but I did. I switched to the stand-by guy. And I had to do it, it was unfortunate, it's very hurtful for that person, I know, but sometimes you have to make those decisions. It was my fault completely; I just made the wrong choice. [INT: 'Cause we've all been there. If you can't change them, and you've got to somehow nursemaid this person through, how do you do that, with kissing them or kicking them or?] It's difficult, isn't it, because I think there's a kind of an atmosphere when things aren't going well. It's very difficult to hide it, you know. But I think what you have to do is you have to cover it more, you have to do lots of cover so that you can retime it in the editing process. And the last resort, you re-voice. You can bring another Actor in to put the voice in. I mean it used to be done a lot in Hollywood in the old days, with the singing. The musicals, they used to get people, come in, sing the song completely different. They don't do that now, but... [INT: Not so much.] Not so much, no.

INT: So again, just to finish that off, if you're not getting what you want, what do you do? You know, like if an Actor resists your direction, how do you handle it? 

JG: Well, I suppose you try and charm him into, or you say, "Okay, we'll do it your way, and then we'll do it my way, or we do it my way and then we do it your way." You know, I mean in other words, you do a take where you do the changes he wants, and then you do a take as it's scripted and then you have the choice later. [INT: And did this happen much on Bond films?] Not really, no. Roger [Roger Moore] sometimes would say like, I remember a scene we were doing, I think it was...I'm trying to remember which film it was, but he was, I think it was FOR YOUR EYES ONLY. He was, he had a, kick a car off a cliff. There had been a chase and this car was poised precariously on the edge of a cliff. And Roger comes up and the villain's in the car. I think it was Michael Gothard, I think, who was the villain. And it had a little dove emblem, and Roger wanted to use the dove emblem to be the counter weight that would send him over to his death. Which sounds very nice, doesn't it? And I said, "No, I think this guy deserves a kick." And Roger fought quite hard with me to do the, you know, the little emblem. And we, I said, "I'll tell you what, Roger, why don't we do it both ways and we can see what works best?" And he agreed to that. So I let him do it his way, and then I did it. It cost me a little time, but then we did it the other way. Although it didn't really affect the stunt of it going down the cliff; it was just a sort of one over shoulder that I did both ways. So sometimes you wouldn't, but who knows? Maybe he would have been right in the editing. [INT: There's nothing I like better than to be proved wrong. Blake [William Blake] said this, you know?] Yeah.

INT: Director of Photography. What do you look for in a Cinematographer? What is it you're after? 

JG: Well, I had a particularly hard lesson on the first film, my TV film I did. I had a cameraman who, every time I wanted to put the camera in a certain place he would say, "Well you can't do that, laddie." You know, he was one of those, and also, he was a good cameraman, but he was inflexible and everything had to be out in the open, so he could get his lights 'round. You know, there was no sort of compromise. And he was also slow, and you know, I had to pull him away from doing the Times crossword to get him to do a shot, and it was my first film as such, even though it was a TV episode, and it taught me a lesson. I thought, no I'm not having any of that at all. I've got to have a guy who I hire, you know, I'm the one who interviews them and picks this chap and he's gonna be responsible to me before anyone else. Before the Producer or anyone else, he's gonna be working for me. And I'd worked on a lot of second units, and I worked with Alan Hume, who's dead now unfortunately, but he was a brilliant cameraman. He did all the CARRY ON films and what have you. But he had a style of lighting, which was very bright, and you could see everything, and he was great. And he had a wonderful sense of humor. I always remember, he worked with, on the CARRY ON films he worked with Gerry [Gerald Thomas], the Director there, and one day he said to Gerry, "Can I take another 10 minutes to do so-and-so?" And Gerry looked at him, he said, "Is it gonna make people laugh?" He said, "No." He said, "Well don't do it then." Gerry Thomas that was. [INT: ‘Cause, you know…cameramen are like, they're like Actors in a way. They all have their predilections; they've got some things they're good at, some things they're bad at and the temperaments and what have you. You know, for me, for instance, I like them to be fast, because that then gives me time to do other things, to make mistakes myself. But sometimes they're worth indulging.] Yeah, yeah. [INT: And you know, it depends for you what your priorities are.] Well it's strange that you should say that, but I mean for instance, when they dish out the Oscars for photography and all that, quite often it's the second unit shots that win it for them, because they're the ones who have the time to go to a place on a certain day, sit on it for two weeks or whatever to get the right conditions and they have this beautiful shot, which kind of sets the scene for the film. But if you were the first unit cameraman you couldn't afford to do that; you'd get the sack. So, you know, that's the thing is, you've got to have a cameraman who knows when it's important and when it's, you know, I mean I would say to Alan, "How long you gonna be Alan? It's only going to be on the screen for two seconds!" And he said, "Well you've still got to see it!" You know, but on the other hand you get another scene that's very important, atmospheric scene and what have you, you know, then you do your right, you indulge them a bit; you give them a bit of time. You're under the cosh all the time as the Director, 'cause you know that, you know, if you allow them to do it all the time you're gonna be in trouble. And your schedule's gonna go and if your schedule goes, it makes life a misery for the production office.

INT: So how would you work with your cameraman? Say you've hired him, you've got the script--‘cause you would work with them in pre-production and location differently than you would on the floor, as it were, so there would be more than one stage to it. 

JG: Yeah. Well, you get ahead, I mean, Alan [Alan Hume] was very good, he would go ahead of me and pre-light. He'd pre-light the next set, so while we were shooting one scene, once we got the thing set, he would then go off with his gaffer onto the next stage and be working, even during the lunch hour sometimes, they'd go there and he'd work out where he wants the lights and what have you. So all that work was going on ahead and then we'd come back and we'd shoot the scene, yeah, while he was there and make any adjustments as we're shooting. But then, when we went on to the next set, it was half lit already. So once we rehearsed it and what have you, he made his adjustments and it speeded the process up quite a lot. [INT: Now, one thing I've found when I was starting off and going to Hollywood, is that the systems were quite different. Often the DoP [Director of Photography] in the British system, the DoP would light, and the operator would operate, and never the 'twain really mixed, and the kind of the modern way is often that the DoP is also the operator and what have you. So I guess, in a way, your relationship with your operator was as important.] Probably you're closer to the operator than you are to the cameraman, because as you say, some cameramen light, they look through the lens at the shot and they light that way, through looking through the camera. Others don't. They just light the scene and you shoot it. The operator is a very important guy, very close to the Director. And they're very clever on, you know, lefts and rights and which way people are looking and what have you, so if someone's not very experienced as technically, the camera operator is a good friend to have. Because he'll put you right straight away. They'll look into it, they see everything two dimensionally, so they know where somebody's on the left or the right. And it's not always easy to work it out sometimes, but they do it instinctively. [INT: In my opinion it's that, some of the old British operators were just fantastic, because they would also dress the frame to a great extent, and their contribution with the First Assistant [First Assistant Director] and the set dresser is really undervalued and sometimes it's just not done elsewhere.] Now sometimes, you set a shot up and then you look through the lens and you know, there's something growing out of the top of the Actor's head, you know? And it's the lamp in the background; it looks like it belongs to the Actor. And you adjust that; you move that. Generally, everything can be moved. [INT: Strangely enough, I've never seen a camera truck in the back of a shot yet.] No. [INT: The shot is always wrong if the camera truck's there.] Yeah, that's right.

INT: Now, designers. Production Designers. You've worked with some real fantastic ones. What do you look for in a designer when you're going, if you're going to hire them? It's different if it's a given. 

JG: Yeah, I think you, obviously you look for experience, and in my experience I'm looking for someone who's very practical, as well as artistic. I mean I'll give you an example if you like, of Peter Lamont, who's a fantastic designer. He worked under Ken Adam, so he had the same visual training if you like. He knew what Bond films were about, you know, the expansive set, and the unusual. And when we would film at Northolt [RAF Northolt] air drone, they said, "We'll find a Corporal with you, but we cannot stop anywhere an operational RAF drone. We can't stop our flights." So I was supposed to be shooting in South America, so I'd constructed, or Peter had constructed all these palm trees, which we were putting everywhere, placing them to make it look as though it's in South America. But unfortunately, it interfered with the flying, so Peter very cleverly made them so they swung up and down; every time a plane came in the palm trees would go down, and when the plane landed and was off the runway, the palm trees would go up and we'd carry on shooting. So he was quite ingenious actually. [INT: So it's one thing to have the big artistic visions, but also to be able to implement them.] Yeah. Ken Adam was fantastic, his sort of visions were amazing, but he wasn't terribly practical, you know? He didn't sort of, I mean, if you're shooting in widescreen, Panavision, you were restricted on top and bottom quite a lot. You've got plenty of left and rights, but your headroom is restricted, so somehow you have to design your sets to fit the frame to a degree, and that's not always the case with Ken. But, you find a way to film it anyway, but… You have to go further back. [INT: Usually the case, yeah. So how do you work with a designer? Again, you've hired the guy, some are going to be like you say, more artistic, some are going to be very practical, but how do you approach it? You know, just take us through that process.] Well if you're talking about a particular set, like for instance in OCTOPUSSY, it was the bedroom set, where the love scene was going to be played. And Peter, I said, you know, I wanted the ceilings to be, I was going to shoot showing the ceilings. And I wanted these ceilings to be, you know, a certain shape, supposed to be India. And he said, "Yeah, we'll do that." And I didn't really think about the bed, I must admit. And when I went on the set, you know, went ahead, the set was made, he said "You better come and have a look at the set." And when I went up there, the bed, he had made the bed like an octopus. And that was purely from him, I mean that was nothing to do with me at all, that was just him thinking and it's fantastic. As soon as the audience saw that, when the doors opened, he walked into the bedroom and they saw this bed that's sort of shaped like an octopus, they just roared with laughter! You know, so he was on the right wavelength. I mean he'd done more Bonds than me; he knew exactly what was required, and fantastic designer. And very practical.